latergator116
Mar 19, 07:08 AM
These rants about the RIAA never fail to amuse me. And, the idea that people who are illegally downloading music are somehow doing a favor to the world is another great myth. It's all justification and *********.
It is really easy to pick a lock. There are lots of people who can do it. Why not run down to your local record store and stock up on CDs? I mean, ***** the RIAA, right?
Posers. Learn the real issues around the music industry if you care. But don't just try to justify theft with some robin hood *********.
I don't understand how using this program has anything to do with illegaly downloading music?
It is really easy to pick a lock. There are lots of people who can do it. Why not run down to your local record store and stock up on CDs? I mean, ***** the RIAA, right?
Posers. Learn the real issues around the music industry if you care. But don't just try to justify theft with some robin hood *********.
I don't understand how using this program has anything to do with illegaly downloading music?
slinger1968
Nov 3, 03:45 AM
The most interesting thing I find about this article is that Tiger is dumping top Conroe NOW for $974. I love the marketing copy on this page. (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2341566&Sku=CP1-DUO-X6800&SRCCODE=CNETFEED&CMP=OTC-CNETFEED&ci_srccode=cii_5766179&cpncode=08-15259969-2). :eek: :
"Hurry!!
We're Selling Our Core2 Extreme CPUs at COST.
That's right...we're selling our complete stock of Intel Core2 Extreme processors AT COST! If you've been waiting for a price drop before making a move to the latest in CPU technology, it's time to take action now."I find bad marketing annoying but I have to admit that I'm way outside the loop of the general consumer.
"it's time to take action now" Why? because the chips are only going to get cheaper?
"So order an Intel Core2 Extreme processor AT COST today!"... because Intel is cutting the prices to retailers and tomorrow this same price for the consumer will be above cost?
It's only :rolleyes: $949 at newegg.
I buy what I want/need/can afford. Sometimes that's way ahead of the tech curve and sometimes it's not.
Sorry, but I hate stupid marketing.
Boy are you out of touch with reality.
Let's say I'm a consumer who just bought an EyeTV Hybrid so I can play HDTV on my 24" iMac. And let's say I decided I'd like to archive my HD broadcast recordings on that iMac.Try reading what you are responding too. I'm fully aware of the consumer software that's available, but I also know the general consumer is not going to be archeiving HD broadcast recordings on their iMac.
I clearly was discussing quad core chips' appeal to the masses, and I'm correct that most software out isn't written for more than 2 cores.
Sure you and others have uses for quad core and more processors but don't act like a complete idiot and try and convince us that most people do. It's just stupid.
I'm all for advancing technology but I also understand that most poeple don't ever push their computers to the limit. You are a small niche, stop acting like you are an average Mac consumer.
"Hurry!!
We're Selling Our Core2 Extreme CPUs at COST.
That's right...we're selling our complete stock of Intel Core2 Extreme processors AT COST! If you've been waiting for a price drop before making a move to the latest in CPU technology, it's time to take action now."I find bad marketing annoying but I have to admit that I'm way outside the loop of the general consumer.
"it's time to take action now" Why? because the chips are only going to get cheaper?
"So order an Intel Core2 Extreme processor AT COST today!"... because Intel is cutting the prices to retailers and tomorrow this same price for the consumer will be above cost?
It's only :rolleyes: $949 at newegg.
I buy what I want/need/can afford. Sometimes that's way ahead of the tech curve and sometimes it's not.
Sorry, but I hate stupid marketing.
Boy are you out of touch with reality.
Let's say I'm a consumer who just bought an EyeTV Hybrid so I can play HDTV on my 24" iMac. And let's say I decided I'd like to archive my HD broadcast recordings on that iMac.Try reading what you are responding too. I'm fully aware of the consumer software that's available, but I also know the general consumer is not going to be archeiving HD broadcast recordings on their iMac.
I clearly was discussing quad core chips' appeal to the masses, and I'm correct that most software out isn't written for more than 2 cores.
Sure you and others have uses for quad core and more processors but don't act like a complete idiot and try and convince us that most people do. It's just stupid.
I'm all for advancing technology but I also understand that most poeple don't ever push their computers to the limit. You are a small niche, stop acting like you are an average Mac consumer.
supmango
Mar 18, 10:48 AM
+11
The whole "it's MY data, I can do what I want with it!" argument is countered by your perfect analogy with a buffet. I tip my hat to you on that one. If you're at an all-you-can-eat buffet, it doesn't mean you can share your food with your entire family.
I've always believed that unlimited data, on a smartphone, enables you to connect to the internet as much as you want on the device you're contracted to. It's not like home internet where you can share the connection, nor have I ever imagined it would be.
I think that people just like to get "angry at the man" when they don't get things the way they want. ATT is trying to improve their network, good for them.
If AT&T let you keep your "unlimited" data plan AND add tethering, his analogy would work. As it stands right now, AT&T forces you to downgrade to a capped data plan and add tethering to it which essentially doubles your data cap to 2gb.
The analogy is more accurately like a traditional restaurant where you order an entre that is not "all you can eat". But in this case, they don't allow you to share it with another person, even though you could never possibly eat all of it by yourself (use your existing data allotment). However, they are more than happy to let you buy another entre. Oh, and you can't take home your leftovers either (rollover). That does a little better job of highlighting exactly how AT&T is being greedy in this scenario.
Bottom line, what people are doing is sticking with unlimited data and tethering (using some other means), and then downloading gigabits of data which does affect network performance for other users. That is how AT&T sees it. If you are careful about what you do while "illegally" tethering, and how often you do it, I seriously doubt they will figure it out. They really aren't that put together on this, as anyone who has spoken to "customer service" can attest.
The whole "it's MY data, I can do what I want with it!" argument is countered by your perfect analogy with a buffet. I tip my hat to you on that one. If you're at an all-you-can-eat buffet, it doesn't mean you can share your food with your entire family.
I've always believed that unlimited data, on a smartphone, enables you to connect to the internet as much as you want on the device you're contracted to. It's not like home internet where you can share the connection, nor have I ever imagined it would be.
I think that people just like to get "angry at the man" when they don't get things the way they want. ATT is trying to improve their network, good for them.
If AT&T let you keep your "unlimited" data plan AND add tethering, his analogy would work. As it stands right now, AT&T forces you to downgrade to a capped data plan and add tethering to it which essentially doubles your data cap to 2gb.
The analogy is more accurately like a traditional restaurant where you order an entre that is not "all you can eat". But in this case, they don't allow you to share it with another person, even though you could never possibly eat all of it by yourself (use your existing data allotment). However, they are more than happy to let you buy another entre. Oh, and you can't take home your leftovers either (rollover). That does a little better job of highlighting exactly how AT&T is being greedy in this scenario.
Bottom line, what people are doing is sticking with unlimited data and tethering (using some other means), and then downloading gigabits of data which does affect network performance for other users. That is how AT&T sees it. If you are careful about what you do while "illegally" tethering, and how often you do it, I seriously doubt they will figure it out. They really aren't that put together on this, as anyone who has spoken to "customer service" can attest.
rasmasyean
Mar 11, 04:27 AM
Live Coverage here...
http://www.youtube.com/aljazeeraenglish?feature=ticker
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42025198#42025198
http://www.youtube.com/aljazeeraenglish?feature=ticker
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42025198#42025198
Young Spade
Apr 5, 10:23 PM
I just switched Friday afternoon so some of these things still aggrivate me a little lol.
I can't maximize a screen without dragging the one corner that lets me resize. This irritated me at first but now I don't mind having a moderate sized box, it allows me to see my wallpaper :) Plus with spaces, I never really need to fill up my screen with windows.
The whole folder/file tree thing in Finder is a little... simple? And it's going to take some getting used to for me. Also the whole not being able to simply cut and paste a file bothers me as well. I love organization and not being able to just cut and move something is a little iffy... unless there is a simple way and I just don't know how...
The keyboard commands will allow you do do a lot of things faster so I would highly suggest you learn them as quick as you can. Right now I'm pretty fluent with them and I'm doing a lot more in a shorter amount of time than I could do with a PC.
I can't maximize a screen without dragging the one corner that lets me resize. This irritated me at first but now I don't mind having a moderate sized box, it allows me to see my wallpaper :) Plus with spaces, I never really need to fill up my screen with windows.
The whole folder/file tree thing in Finder is a little... simple? And it's going to take some getting used to for me. Also the whole not being able to simply cut and paste a file bothers me as well. I love organization and not being able to just cut and move something is a little iffy... unless there is a simple way and I just don't know how...
The keyboard commands will allow you do do a lot of things faster so I would highly suggest you learn them as quick as you can. Right now I'm pretty fluent with them and I'm doing a lot more in a shorter amount of time than I could do with a PC.
archipellago
May 2, 04:56 PM
Sure it can, but it's the percentage and the variables of these "bad" incidents that are key as you are generalizing without specifics.
How about unbiased studies, and percentages of viruses and malware between the two? Those would be facts (again, from an impartial party/experiment).
Also, you're on a Mac based website, so of course there are OS X defenders. Go to Engadget, et al if you don't wish to be here, you're free to decide :)
Its hard to link to conversations.....
Studies on malware are pointless, there is so little effort being put into writing OSX malware, no ROI.
to be honest I didn't think it was a still a live argument (Mac OSX security myths) it certainly isn't in my circles.
How about unbiased studies, and percentages of viruses and malware between the two? Those would be facts (again, from an impartial party/experiment).
Also, you're on a Mac based website, so of course there are OS X defenders. Go to Engadget, et al if you don't wish to be here, you're free to decide :)
Its hard to link to conversations.....
Studies on malware are pointless, there is so little effort being put into writing OSX malware, no ROI.
to be honest I didn't think it was a still a live argument (Mac OSX security myths) it certainly isn't in my circles.
chim9999
Jul 10, 08:15 PM
i'm in north central arkansas. town with a population of 12k. we just went 3g a couple of weeks ago. 2 dropped calls since then (one crossing from 2g back to 3g). can't remember last dropped call on 2g.
Edge100
Apr 15, 12:11 PM
What are you talking about? Don't blame your ignorance on semantics. Try understanding what you read first.
If you are talking about an unmarried straight couple, then yes, you can have same-sex sex and it's "just as OK", i.e., equally not OK.
And the difference is that the heterosexual couple can get married, while the homosexual couple can't. And that is an inequality that your church has helped to create.
If you are talking about an unmarried straight couple, then yes, you can have same-sex sex and it's "just as OK", i.e., equally not OK.
And the difference is that the heterosexual couple can get married, while the homosexual couple can't. And that is an inequality that your church has helped to create.
Rodimus Prime
Apr 15, 09:53 AM
I'm a straight, white, middle class kid. And even I felt that was relevant to my own life and experiences. While they specifically talk about being gay, the message of how to deal with hardships when you grow up is still relevant.
I'm in the same group and I saw the message and saw how it still relevant. I just wish they would make videos and focus on the other groups.
Thinking back to those darker times a message like this would not of sank for me because I did not fit in with the LBGT group as I am straight.
Now 10-15 years later as an adult I can see the message and agree it is relevent. But at the time not as good. Hence the reason why I feel they should also try to help out those straight kids who are for example fat and target them directly. Try to target straight kids as well.
I'm in the same group and I saw the message and saw how it still relevant. I just wish they would make videos and focus on the other groups.
Thinking back to those darker times a message like this would not of sank for me because I did not fit in with the LBGT group as I am straight.
Now 10-15 years later as an adult I can see the message and agree it is relevent. But at the time not as good. Hence the reason why I feel they should also try to help out those straight kids who are for example fat and target them directly. Try to target straight kids as well.
Hastings101
Apr 5, 08:36 PM
Are you guys sure that switching is really "worth it"? (serious question)
I don't think it's really worth it. Windows 7 and Snow Leopard are so close together in quality that OS X is no longer obviously the better operating system (in my opinion of course). It's also a pain to have to replace your entire collection of Windows applications with Mac versions or Mac alternatives.
The only reason I still use OS X is because I like the look of it, I like that there are (at the moment) less viruses/trojans/whatevers, and I have way too many Mac only applications that I depend on.
I don't think it's really worth it. Windows 7 and Snow Leopard are so close together in quality that OS X is no longer obviously the better operating system (in my opinion of course). It's also a pain to have to replace your entire collection of Windows applications with Mac versions or Mac alternatives.
The only reason I still use OS X is because I like the look of it, I like that there are (at the moment) less viruses/trojans/whatevers, and I have way too many Mac only applications that I depend on.
Full of Win
Apr 13, 03:45 AM
Please, be more dramatic. :rolleyes:
Is that a request?
This is an amazing update. It's everything FCP has needed for a long time. And you're upset because it looks like iMovie? I swear, it doesn't matter what Apple does, whenever there's an update by Apple there will always be people like you who will NEVER be happy. I'm surprised you aren't complaining that it's not a free download. Stop acting like a victim. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy it.
I see it as emblematic of the direction that Apple is taking away from the pro market. With that said, I'll likely buy it, since it looks like a nice prosumer-focused package. Three hundred dollar for what they are offering is not a bad deal at all. I just hope it comes on DVD, so I can point my bony finger at the box and tell it how it does not hold a candle to its older brothers.
Is that a request?
This is an amazing update. It's everything FCP has needed for a long time. And you're upset because it looks like iMovie? I swear, it doesn't matter what Apple does, whenever there's an update by Apple there will always be people like you who will NEVER be happy. I'm surprised you aren't complaining that it's not a free download. Stop acting like a victim. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy it.
I see it as emblematic of the direction that Apple is taking away from the pro market. With that said, I'll likely buy it, since it looks like a nice prosumer-focused package. Three hundred dollar for what they are offering is not a bad deal at all. I just hope it comes on DVD, so I can point my bony finger at the box and tell it how it does not hold a candle to its older brothers.
arkitect
Apr 15, 10:55 AM
BEST. POST. EVER.
So you are OK with the whole Ex-Gay thing?
And before you become over-wrought again, I am just reading what you wrote in reply to WestonHarvey1's post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12397392&postcount=126)… where he says he suspects you might be sympathetic to the ex-gay "cause". A post which you then labelled Best. Post. Ever.
So you are OK with the whole Ex-Gay thing?
And before you become over-wrought again, I am just reading what you wrote in reply to WestonHarvey1's post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12397392&postcount=126)… where he says he suspects you might be sympathetic to the ex-gay "cause". A post which you then labelled Best. Post. Ever.
AppliedVisual
Oct 26, 10:07 AM
Just convince Apple to buy SGI.
At the rate SGI is going, I could probably buy SGI myself for whatever is in my pocket within the next year. Talk about a company that failed to follow the industry and adapt with the times... No point in anyone buying them, the only thing keeping them afloat is the few tidbits of technology they've licensed over the years, which is all just about obsolete now anyway. SGI hasn't had a new, innovative product in over 10 years. I think the first sign of the end was when SGI released their attempt at Windows workstations back in '98 and they were 1/3 the price and more than twice as powerful as any of their desktop Irix workstations. I ran a quad-CPU SGI540 for several years as a development server and render box with a dual-CPU SGI 340 as a workstation. Picked both of them up second-hand for a steal... Very nice systems, too bad SGI never followed through with support for them.
Sad too because I essentially started doing commercial 3D graphics work on an SGI Indigo. Owned various SGIs over the years - Indy, a few Indigo2 models, O2 (crap), Octane... 1 Origin 200 server. Never considered buying Fuel or Tezro (their last two workstation attempts) -- way too expensive and very much underpowered compared to PC/Mac.
At the rate SGI is going, I could probably buy SGI myself for whatever is in my pocket within the next year. Talk about a company that failed to follow the industry and adapt with the times... No point in anyone buying them, the only thing keeping them afloat is the few tidbits of technology they've licensed over the years, which is all just about obsolete now anyway. SGI hasn't had a new, innovative product in over 10 years. I think the first sign of the end was when SGI released their attempt at Windows workstations back in '98 and they were 1/3 the price and more than twice as powerful as any of their desktop Irix workstations. I ran a quad-CPU SGI540 for several years as a development server and render box with a dual-CPU SGI 340 as a workstation. Picked both of them up second-hand for a steal... Very nice systems, too bad SGI never followed through with support for them.
Sad too because I essentially started doing commercial 3D graphics work on an SGI Indigo. Owned various SGIs over the years - Indy, a few Indigo2 models, O2 (crap), Octane... 1 Origin 200 server. Never considered buying Fuel or Tezro (their last two workstation attempts) -- way too expensive and very much underpowered compared to PC/Mac.
IgnatiusTheKing
Jul 8, 08:25 AM
After suffering for 2 years I ditched and went with the HTC Incredible on Verizon.
Is the battery life as bad as I've heard? I think I prefer the Incredible to the Droid X (mainly because of size), but I hate not being able to make it through the day without charging my phone.
Is the battery life as bad as I've heard? I think I prefer the Incredible to the Droid X (mainly because of size), but I hate not being able to make it through the day without charging my phone.
Pale Rider
Aug 29, 02:52 PM
Notice that one of the things that Greenpeace ranked companies on is the precationary principle: "The company fails to embrace the precautionary principle." I for one would prefer that my technology companies not embrace the Luddite, er, precautionary principle. As principles go, it is philosophically bankrupt, and not a scientifically credible basis for making technological and sociological decisions.
As for the anti-American sentiment out there, please, that bigotry is almost as productive as the fanatacism you purport to oppose. Greenpeace wears no halo; neither do corporations. Neither does the French government that used the South Pacific for nuclear testing; neither does the German government, nor the Chinese pollution complex. I want Apple to be even better at what it does and for which it has been lauded--longer life cycle products and aggressive recycling programs (notwithstanding what Greenpeace said). But like many here, I find the notion that Dell is more "green" than Apple so inherently laughable--look at why Greenpeace says Dell is more green, not because of reality, but because of how Dell interacted with them--that I cannot take this report seriously. "Greenpeace doesn't like Apple's attitude" might as well have been the report title. And on that note, I probably feel better about Apple accordingly.
As for the anti-American sentiment out there, please, that bigotry is almost as productive as the fanatacism you purport to oppose. Greenpeace wears no halo; neither do corporations. Neither does the French government that used the South Pacific for nuclear testing; neither does the German government, nor the Chinese pollution complex. I want Apple to be even better at what it does and for which it has been lauded--longer life cycle products and aggressive recycling programs (notwithstanding what Greenpeace said). But like many here, I find the notion that Dell is more "green" than Apple so inherently laughable--look at why Greenpeace says Dell is more green, not because of reality, but because of how Dell interacted with them--that I cannot take this report seriously. "Greenpeace doesn't like Apple's attitude" might as well have been the report title. And on that note, I probably feel better about Apple accordingly.
CQd44
May 2, 08:56 AM
"Huge" threat.
About as huge as most windows ones!
About as huge as most windows ones!
AppliedVisual
Oct 14, 03:04 AM
Just one tidbit of information if anyone is considerng a DVI-DL switch for their 30" (Dell or Apple) displays...
DO NOT buy the Gefen 2x1 switcher. It's based on a previous chipset that requires the user to disassemble the unit to adjust an internal sync knob! Additionally, it requires the use of two external dials (one for each input) to try and synchronize the signal!!! There isn't enough adjustment in all three dials to make much difference and while I could sync either my PC or my G5 quad just fine, I couldn't get them both to sync at all.
The 4x1 switcher is new hardware that auto syncs as it should and it works great.
These switchers come with DVI-DL cables, but if you need longer ones, buy cables from www.monoprice.com -- great cables, they work wonderfully and they have the best prices by far. Sorry for the shameless plug, but I can't stand overpaying for cables and I'm not affiliated with that store in any way. Also a gread source for cables if you just want to run your monitor farther away from your computer because it only comes with a 2M cable.
Oh, and you must have a DVI-DL source to connect to both the Dell and the Apple 30". If your system only has regular DVI, it will not work, you will get a garbage signal. Even if you run at a lower resolution that standard DVI supports, these two displays only accept a DVI-DL connection. It's a bunch of crap that it works that way, but just thought I'd give everyone a heads-up who may not have experience with them. When Apple and Dell say it needs a DVI-DL interface, it's not that they want you to buy a new video card, it's that these displays truly do require one.
DO NOT buy the Gefen 2x1 switcher. It's based on a previous chipset that requires the user to disassemble the unit to adjust an internal sync knob! Additionally, it requires the use of two external dials (one for each input) to try and synchronize the signal!!! There isn't enough adjustment in all three dials to make much difference and while I could sync either my PC or my G5 quad just fine, I couldn't get them both to sync at all.
The 4x1 switcher is new hardware that auto syncs as it should and it works great.
These switchers come with DVI-DL cables, but if you need longer ones, buy cables from www.monoprice.com -- great cables, they work wonderfully and they have the best prices by far. Sorry for the shameless plug, but I can't stand overpaying for cables and I'm not affiliated with that store in any way. Also a gread source for cables if you just want to run your monitor farther away from your computer because it only comes with a 2M cable.
Oh, and you must have a DVI-DL source to connect to both the Dell and the Apple 30". If your system only has regular DVI, it will not work, you will get a garbage signal. Even if you run at a lower resolution that standard DVI supports, these two displays only accept a DVI-DL connection. It's a bunch of crap that it works that way, but just thought I'd give everyone a heads-up who may not have experience with them. When Apple and Dell say it needs a DVI-DL interface, it's not that they want you to buy a new video card, it's that these displays truly do require one.
Machead III
Aug 29, 11:44 AM
Just look at peopel today, even in this forum. Just 5 years ago there would be far less worried faces around, we left that to the lab coats and their crackpot theories.
I guess it was the recent natural disasters and the heatwaves that did it.
Well, if that's what's got you worried, then good. I hate to say it, but you need to be very, very worried. You thought this summer was hot? Think what it will be like in 10, 20, 50 years.
Think what it will be like in a 100.
Life on Earth is notoriously sensitive to temperatures. We were sweating like pigs with the increase of only a fractions of a degree.
By 2100 if we don't implement vast changes, and this is even if we maintain the rate we're at now, the Earth will have warmed by about 4 degrees C.
At this point human life expectancies will have probably halved. Give it another 100 years or so and that's it, game over, we're done, another species added to the no doubt vast list of intelligent species throughout the universe that have destroyed themselves in the pursuit of wealth.
I guess it was the recent natural disasters and the heatwaves that did it.
Well, if that's what's got you worried, then good. I hate to say it, but you need to be very, very worried. You thought this summer was hot? Think what it will be like in 10, 20, 50 years.
Think what it will be like in a 100.
Life on Earth is notoriously sensitive to temperatures. We were sweating like pigs with the increase of only a fractions of a degree.
By 2100 if we don't implement vast changes, and this is even if we maintain the rate we're at now, the Earth will have warmed by about 4 degrees C.
At this point human life expectancies will have probably halved. Give it another 100 years or so and that's it, game over, we're done, another species added to the no doubt vast list of intelligent species throughout the universe that have destroyed themselves in the pursuit of wealth.
javajedi
Oct 10, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
javajedi:
Yes, the JVM is the deciding factor here. If the Java takes that damn long on a G4 but goes fast on a P4, can can rest assured that the JVM Apple is distributing sucks compared to whatever one the x86 machines are using.
There is no way in heck that the performance delta can be so large without a large difference in quality of JVM. G4's may be slower, but they are not as slow as those number indicate.
Like I've been saying, when you start to see 5x leads by the PCs you need to start asking questions about the fairness of the benchmark. The G4 is better than 1/5 the speed. There are very few things were a P4 can get better performance per clock than a G4.
BTW:
Your G3 results as bizzarre as well, because of the contrast between them and the G4 results. Do not take it as proof one way or the other of the G3 or other IBM chips being superior to the G4. What we have here are raw numbers that defy a simple explanations. We should ask why these numbers are popping up, rather than running off with them as if they were uttered by a great voice in the sky or somthing.
I should note that the 90 second and 72 second results I just recently posted are from my cocoa implementation, not java.. so the jvm is out of the picture now on the mac.
Do not take it as proof one way or the other of the G3 or other IBM chips being superior to the G4.
Don't worry, I don't make assumptions like that. And no, I don�t think this does defy simple explanations. I will say that, what we are starting to see here is evidence that the scalar units (integer and fpu) in the IBM 750FX (G3) are more efficient than those in the Motorola G4.
If this is true, then my program hit it right on the nail. Also if this is true, it means there exist theoretical situations when using non altivec code that it would be faster on one of these newer G3 chips.
Also what alex said about how tedious it was to make altivec code, I would agree there is some truth to this. When you vectorize code (either for the P4 or G4), if you don't watch your p's and q's you can actually slow *down* your code. Just because you use the nice and special vector registers on these G4 and Pentium 4 processors does not mean you gain 5 times the speed. You literally have to take your methods back to the drawing board. You will only get peak performance out of pipelined, fully vectorized code.
None the less, scalar operations on both G3/G4 are miserable compared to x86. The JVM is no longer the deciding factor in the performance delta. It's out of the equation on the Mac since the benchmark is now a 100% native cocoa application with c code and no longer java. Mean while on the x86, the benchmark remains java.
70-ish seconds navtive on a G3
90-ish seconds on a native on a G4
5.9-6-ish seconds running under JVM 1.4.1 on a P4
javajedi:
Yes, the JVM is the deciding factor here. If the Java takes that damn long on a G4 but goes fast on a P4, can can rest assured that the JVM Apple is distributing sucks compared to whatever one the x86 machines are using.
There is no way in heck that the performance delta can be so large without a large difference in quality of JVM. G4's may be slower, but they are not as slow as those number indicate.
Like I've been saying, when you start to see 5x leads by the PCs you need to start asking questions about the fairness of the benchmark. The G4 is better than 1/5 the speed. There are very few things were a P4 can get better performance per clock than a G4.
BTW:
Your G3 results as bizzarre as well, because of the contrast between them and the G4 results. Do not take it as proof one way or the other of the G3 or other IBM chips being superior to the G4. What we have here are raw numbers that defy a simple explanations. We should ask why these numbers are popping up, rather than running off with them as if they were uttered by a great voice in the sky or somthing.
I should note that the 90 second and 72 second results I just recently posted are from my cocoa implementation, not java.. so the jvm is out of the picture now on the mac.
Do not take it as proof one way or the other of the G3 or other IBM chips being superior to the G4.
Don't worry, I don't make assumptions like that. And no, I don�t think this does defy simple explanations. I will say that, what we are starting to see here is evidence that the scalar units (integer and fpu) in the IBM 750FX (G3) are more efficient than those in the Motorola G4.
If this is true, then my program hit it right on the nail. Also if this is true, it means there exist theoretical situations when using non altivec code that it would be faster on one of these newer G3 chips.
Also what alex said about how tedious it was to make altivec code, I would agree there is some truth to this. When you vectorize code (either for the P4 or G4), if you don't watch your p's and q's you can actually slow *down* your code. Just because you use the nice and special vector registers on these G4 and Pentium 4 processors does not mean you gain 5 times the speed. You literally have to take your methods back to the drawing board. You will only get peak performance out of pipelined, fully vectorized code.
None the less, scalar operations on both G3/G4 are miserable compared to x86. The JVM is no longer the deciding factor in the performance delta. It's out of the equation on the Mac since the benchmark is now a 100% native cocoa application with c code and no longer java. Mean while on the x86, the benchmark remains java.
70-ish seconds navtive on a G3
90-ish seconds on a native on a G4
5.9-6-ish seconds running under JVM 1.4.1 on a P4
skunk
Apr 24, 01:32 PM
Currently the biggest threat to freedom and democracy is Islam.Far greater is the threat posed by unbridled corporate power and the purchase of politicians.
Rocketman
Sep 26, 09:43 AM
My only hope is now that multi-core systems have gone mainstream that someone (cough -M$-cough) will make multi-processor aware apps "fashionable" and extend the trend.
Also solid state drives are needed to properly service the I/O needs. Why NOT put a solid state SATA drive in one slot on a MacPro so you can use it for a swap space? Or a PCI slot based device?
Remember, price is no object! I used to run my Mac+ in ramdrive mode and it was faster that way than my friend's IIfx for apps that would fit in the limited space. External SCSI drive for strorage in that mode.
I must be old :)
Rocketman
Also solid state drives are needed to properly service the I/O needs. Why NOT put a solid state SATA drive in one slot on a MacPro so you can use it for a swap space? Or a PCI slot based device?
Remember, price is no object! I used to run my Mac+ in ramdrive mode and it was faster that way than my friend's IIfx for apps that would fit in the limited space. External SCSI drive for strorage in that mode.
I must be old :)
Rocketman
notjustjay
Apr 6, 11:58 AM
forgot to add that the "+" (maximize) button is wildly inconsistent in its function.
maximizing to full screen in general isn't the way OS X "works", which is why most programs don't do that...but it seems Apple never really decided what the maximize button is supposed to do.
That's because Apple didn't decide what the maximize button was supposed to do. That was supposed to be up to each application developer.
Don't think of it as a "maximize" button, think of it as "optimize". As in "Hey, application, the user just clicked your green button. Go ahead and resize yourself to whatever you think is most appropriate given what document is currently open." Most apps should resize their window to display the full width without needing scrollbars. In theory.
I agree with the person a few posts up who said "Don't think about how you did it in Windows. Think about what you think would make sense" and it usually works.
As for the other little quibbles discussed in this thread: yes, OS X is a little different (most of these issues are with Finder versus Explorer, I notice). You just get used to it. I use XP at work and OSX at home every day, and I learn to work with each. I do some of the tricks mentioned in this thread (like adding a shortcut to my Applications folder on the dock to mimic a Start menu) but not so much because "I prefer the Windows way" as "this is efficient and makes sense".
maximizing to full screen in general isn't the way OS X "works", which is why most programs don't do that...but it seems Apple never really decided what the maximize button is supposed to do.
That's because Apple didn't decide what the maximize button was supposed to do. That was supposed to be up to each application developer.
Don't think of it as a "maximize" button, think of it as "optimize". As in "Hey, application, the user just clicked your green button. Go ahead and resize yourself to whatever you think is most appropriate given what document is currently open." Most apps should resize their window to display the full width without needing scrollbars. In theory.
I agree with the person a few posts up who said "Don't think about how you did it in Windows. Think about what you think would make sense" and it usually works.
As for the other little quibbles discussed in this thread: yes, OS X is a little different (most of these issues are with Finder versus Explorer, I notice). You just get used to it. I use XP at work and OSX at home every day, and I learn to work with each. I do some of the tricks mentioned in this thread (like adding a shortcut to my Applications folder on the dock to mimic a Start menu) but not so much because "I prefer the Windows way" as "this is efficient and makes sense".
Rt&Dzine
Mar 25, 11:46 PM
The Catholic Church recognizes that people don't choose to be homosexual, however it does recognize that acting on those urges is entirely their choice. Chastity is what they are called to.
That is only if they choose to be Catholic (or other manmade religion with such beliefs). Otherwise, they aren't called to chastity.
That is only if they choose to be Catholic (or other manmade religion with such beliefs). Otherwise, they aren't called to chastity.
Lau
Aug 29, 04:07 PM
You know what I hate about crap like this?
People read it, and then point their respective (washed in soap with chemical additives and toxins) fingers at Appple, because it makes them feel good. "Yeah, this Apple stuff is crap!"
Then they go drive a block down the street to get milk from a cow who's waste runoff pollutes the local river, sit down and watch their TV with power generated from a coal-spewing power plant while eating dinner from plastic packaging that came from oil that was refined at a plant that contaminates the environment.
Unless you live on an uninhabited island, catch all your own food and generate your own power, you have no room to talk. None of us do.
I know where you're coming from, but surely it's a good thing to try and get the companies we use to improve their environmental policy? If Dell does recycle more than Apple, then maybe Apple should recycle more. If Apple's stuff lasts longer, Dell should make their stuff last longer. And yes, at the same time, we should be putting pressure on companies to reduce food packaging and use less power and fuel. I don't really see it as a competition between companies, more that if one company does something environmentally better than another, the other should try and match it, you know?
People read it, and then point their respective (washed in soap with chemical additives and toxins) fingers at Appple, because it makes them feel good. "Yeah, this Apple stuff is crap!"
Then they go drive a block down the street to get milk from a cow who's waste runoff pollutes the local river, sit down and watch their TV with power generated from a coal-spewing power plant while eating dinner from plastic packaging that came from oil that was refined at a plant that contaminates the environment.
Unless you live on an uninhabited island, catch all your own food and generate your own power, you have no room to talk. None of us do.
I know where you're coming from, but surely it's a good thing to try and get the companies we use to improve their environmental policy? If Dell does recycle more than Apple, then maybe Apple should recycle more. If Apple's stuff lasts longer, Dell should make their stuff last longer. And yes, at the same time, we should be putting pressure on companies to reduce food packaging and use less power and fuel. I don't really see it as a competition between companies, more that if one company does something environmentally better than another, the other should try and match it, you know?
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