aricher
Sep 14, 04:49 PM
He's totally mistaken! The Cloverton CPUs will *all* be 64-bits, as Woodcrest (found in current Mac Pros) is. Intel is not going to ever go back to a 32-bit Xeon class CPU.
The difference between Woodcrest and "Tigerton" is that Woodcrest CPUs achieve their "dual core" status by basically placing two complete Xeon CPUs under one outer casing, and making them communicate with each other through the front-side bus on the motherboard.
Cloverton will be the same way, but with 4 cores packed into one casing, instead of just two.
"Tigerton" will finally allow both cores to interconnect with each other through an internal interface built into the CPU, instead of slowing communications down by routing it off one CPU core, through the motherboard's front-side bus, and back onto the other core.
I got this great response this morning from my IT snob:
"Where in that linked article does it say 64bit? I see 65 nm, but not 64 bit. Duct taping two 32 bit cores together may get you Mac 64 bit processing... great for drawing cool pictures."
Anyone have a link that shows that Clovertown is 64 bit? Please help me to defeat this PC IT ogre
The difference between Woodcrest and "Tigerton" is that Woodcrest CPUs achieve their "dual core" status by basically placing two complete Xeon CPUs under one outer casing, and making them communicate with each other through the front-side bus on the motherboard.
Cloverton will be the same way, but with 4 cores packed into one casing, instead of just two.
"Tigerton" will finally allow both cores to interconnect with each other through an internal interface built into the CPU, instead of slowing communications down by routing it off one CPU core, through the motherboard's front-side bus, and back onto the other core.
I got this great response this morning from my IT snob:
"Where in that linked article does it say 64bit? I see 65 nm, but not 64 bit. Duct taping two 32 bit cores together may get you Mac 64 bit processing... great for drawing cool pictures."
Anyone have a link that shows that Clovertown is 64 bit? Please help me to defeat this PC IT ogre
leekohler
Mar 4, 04:08 PM
Except I was responding to a post that suggested heterosexuals stop having sex...
We can most certainly keep procreating if heterosexuals don't have sex. It's not that difficult.
We can most certainly keep procreating if heterosexuals don't have sex. It's not that difficult.
BlizzardBomb
Jul 27, 02:15 PM
Remember that the G5 is 64 bit. While the consumer apps may not be too directly affected at first, (speed increases, but nothing else), as more memory is required, 32 bit will hit a brick wall at 4GiB, whereas 64 bit can go along happily to 2,305,843,009,200,000,000GiB.
Realistically, it will take some time to get to that level, but with the last G5 supporting 16GiB, 32 then 64 wouldn't be too far off. within 10 years, I'm sure 1TiB will start to become common.
But with only 2 RAM slots in most current Macs (apart from obviously the Power Mac G5 which has 64-bit processor anyway), getting past 4GB is basically impossible/ ridiculously expensive at the moment.
Realistically, it will take some time to get to that level, but with the last G5 supporting 16GiB, 32 then 64 wouldn't be too far off. within 10 years, I'm sure 1TiB will start to become common.
But with only 2 RAM slots in most current Macs (apart from obviously the Power Mac G5 which has 64-bit processor anyway), getting past 4GB is basically impossible/ ridiculously expensive at the moment.
bibbz
Jun 9, 09:45 PM
Bibbz: I'm in the dfw area which radio shack do you work at? Would like to go through you for my next iPhone since know what's going on. I will be trading in my current 3gs.
I tried to send you a pm, I'm not really sure why I couldn't.
I tried to send you a pm, I'm not really sure why I couldn't.
AlligatorBloodz
Apr 8, 02:23 AM
Well right now I'm looking at both their online stores. Both sites have the Apple TV @ $99, so... uh.. Lol.
Wait ... I don't think I mentioned Best Buy paying customers to buy Apple products. I don't fully understand your post :/
What don't you get. Best buy gets the ATV2 from apple for $90, then sells it for $99. The same price apple sells it for. Best buy makes $10 or less on every atv2 they sell.
Also my point about the student discount was it wouldn't make sense for best buy to honor it if they lost money. It would make more sense not to sell it.
Wait ... I don't think I mentioned Best Buy paying customers to buy Apple products. I don't fully understand your post :/
What don't you get. Best buy gets the ATV2 from apple for $90, then sells it for $99. The same price apple sells it for. Best buy makes $10 or less on every atv2 they sell.
Also my point about the student discount was it wouldn't make sense for best buy to honor it if they lost money. It would make more sense not to sell it.
MacAddict1978
Mar 26, 02:18 PM
It must be conspiracy right. Right.
It couldn't just be an honest mistake as a result of a stretched development team.
No. It must be the same guys who shot Kennedy messing up all our tech. It's probably something to do with the Chinese.
With all the cash Apple sit's their butts on, there is NO EXCUSE for their development teams, or any team to be stretched thin. Back in the day when Apple was still the little engine that could and trying to avoid that second foot falling in the grave, ok. Yes, they needed to stretch themselves, innovate with little expense, but not today.
Some will argue Apple is slow with development because they want to get it right. Though history in the past 5 years shows us consistency with hardware issues in just about every thing they have released, and software bugs to match on the other end. We've seen delays in OS releases the past few times, and still buggy when they do come out. Leopard was released with an installer that failed and forced tons of people mass headaches, even the tech savvy. The bloody installer was buggy! I expect the darn thing to at least install before glitches tick me off.
Hire some damned people already. The money you spend denying things are buggy or denying the existence of hardware issues (that magically a month or 2 later you fix even though you denied it was a problem in the first place) could easily expand your teams.
And while I don't subscribe to the original posters conspiracy theory, I think he's half right. THey just don't care. iPhone 3G users anyway? They bricked everyone's phones with a bad update, and then acted like everyone was crazy, then admitted it was slow (no, unusable) gave a shoddy fix that made it usable but so bad you had to either hack your phone to put an old version of IOS on it, or you were running to upgrade. Wait, maybe I do buy into his theory. It's one thing to not support old technologies, it's another to leave them crippled and not look back.
It couldn't just be an honest mistake as a result of a stretched development team.
No. It must be the same guys who shot Kennedy messing up all our tech. It's probably something to do with the Chinese.
With all the cash Apple sit's their butts on, there is NO EXCUSE for their development teams, or any team to be stretched thin. Back in the day when Apple was still the little engine that could and trying to avoid that second foot falling in the grave, ok. Yes, they needed to stretch themselves, innovate with little expense, but not today.
Some will argue Apple is slow with development because they want to get it right. Though history in the past 5 years shows us consistency with hardware issues in just about every thing they have released, and software bugs to match on the other end. We've seen delays in OS releases the past few times, and still buggy when they do come out. Leopard was released with an installer that failed and forced tons of people mass headaches, even the tech savvy. The bloody installer was buggy! I expect the darn thing to at least install before glitches tick me off.
Hire some damned people already. The money you spend denying things are buggy or denying the existence of hardware issues (that magically a month or 2 later you fix even though you denied it was a problem in the first place) could easily expand your teams.
And while I don't subscribe to the original posters conspiracy theory, I think he's half right. THey just don't care. iPhone 3G users anyway? They bricked everyone's phones with a bad update, and then acted like everyone was crazy, then admitted it was slow (no, unusable) gave a shoddy fix that made it usable but so bad you had to either hack your phone to put an old version of IOS on it, or you were running to upgrade. Wait, maybe I do buy into his theory. It's one thing to not support old technologies, it's another to leave them crippled and not look back.
budafied
Apr 6, 10:49 AM
This may make my 13" MBP summer purchase change a bit...
It'd be a hard choice between a current i5 13" MBP and an i5 13" MBA, especially with that higher res screen and the SSD. The only problem is that it will be my only machine, so I'm not sure I can do just an Air for an extended period of time. The netbook-only setup I have now is pretty lame.
It'd be a hard choice between a current i5 13" MBP and an i5 13" MBA, especially with that higher res screen and the SSD. The only problem is that it will be my only machine, so I'm not sure I can do just an Air for an extended period of time. The netbook-only setup I have now is pretty lame.
Bill McEnaney
Apr 29, 09:40 AM
Yes, the same people who noticed that there was something "fishy" about Obama's short form birth certificate.
For me, the birth certificate issue is a dead issue.
For me, the birth certificate issue is a dead issue.
aegisdesign
Sep 13, 12:30 PM
The Mac Pro isn't for most people. It's for professionals and professional applications, which are usally multithreaded, and will take advantage of the capabilities.
If you have a complaint about all these cores and not being able to take advantage of them, then this is not the computer for you. You're probably not using the software that will take advantage of them, so let it go and stop whining about it. For the those of us that do, this is great news.
It was just a general point, not a whine, so don't get your panties in a bunch. And some of the applications that don't take advantage of multiple cores currently are Adobe Photoshop and Quicktime which both rarely use more than two cores and sometimes only one. Both pretty important to professionals.
If you have a complaint about all these cores and not being able to take advantage of them, then this is not the computer for you. You're probably not using the software that will take advantage of them, so let it go and stop whining about it. For the those of us that do, this is great news.
It was just a general point, not a whine, so don't get your panties in a bunch. And some of the applications that don't take advantage of multiple cores currently are Adobe Photoshop and Quicktime which both rarely use more than two cores and sometimes only one. Both pretty important to professionals.
dougny
Nov 29, 08:58 AM
Do you work for Universal, or the RIAA?
No actually, I represent recording artists, songwriters and producers. I am on the other side usually trying to fight the labels for every nickle an artist can try to get. However, because of that, I am on the same page with them in trying to get my artists and writers compensated from a digital marketplace that only pays for a small percentage of the material transferred. My artists only get paid for between 10 - 20% of the digital material out there (the rest pirated), so, anywhere we can get some income, even if through this flawed iPod royalty, I support.
I am just sick of people who think that they have a right to free music. Why don't you all think you have a right to free computers, or free software. How dare Apple charge you for iLife?
If all of you on here bought all of your music either from iTunes or from a record store, then, absolutely, complain away if that dollar is passed on to you. But, which is likely in just about every case, you have a few songs you burned off a friend's CD or downloaded from a file-sharing site, then shut up, you are the reason this is necessary.
No actually, I represent recording artists, songwriters and producers. I am on the other side usually trying to fight the labels for every nickle an artist can try to get. However, because of that, I am on the same page with them in trying to get my artists and writers compensated from a digital marketplace that only pays for a small percentage of the material transferred. My artists only get paid for between 10 - 20% of the digital material out there (the rest pirated), so, anywhere we can get some income, even if through this flawed iPod royalty, I support.
I am just sick of people who think that they have a right to free music. Why don't you all think you have a right to free computers, or free software. How dare Apple charge you for iLife?
If all of you on here bought all of your music either from iTunes or from a record store, then, absolutely, complain away if that dollar is passed on to you. But, which is likely in just about every case, you have a few songs you burned off a friend's CD or downloaded from a file-sharing site, then shut up, you are the reason this is necessary.
borisadmin
Jul 28, 05:11 AM
Just to clarify a few things...
Merom uses the same amount of power essentially per MHz as Yonah. However, it is 20% more efficient than Yonah is. So while putting Merom into any of the current machines will NOT make them cooler or use less power than the Yonah versions, they will all:
1 - Be approximately 20% faster at the same MHz rating.
2 - Have 64-bit capability.
3 - Have enhanced SSE (closer to AltiVec than previous Intel chips.)
Some of the Merom chips also have twice the L2 cache (4 MB vs. 2 MB) which would also increase speeds, but the other items above are more important in the grand scheme of things.
Ensoniq, thanks so much for the useful corrections. How significant do you think that 64-bit capability will be in the future compared to not having it(say, 2-3 years time)?
Merom uses the same amount of power essentially per MHz as Yonah. However, it is 20% more efficient than Yonah is. So while putting Merom into any of the current machines will NOT make them cooler or use less power than the Yonah versions, they will all:
1 - Be approximately 20% faster at the same MHz rating.
2 - Have 64-bit capability.
3 - Have enhanced SSE (closer to AltiVec than previous Intel chips.)
Some of the Merom chips also have twice the L2 cache (4 MB vs. 2 MB) which would also increase speeds, but the other items above are more important in the grand scheme of things.
Ensoniq, thanks so much for the useful corrections. How significant do you think that 64-bit capability will be in the future compared to not having it(say, 2-3 years time)?
gnasher729
Aug 26, 04:12 PM
That doesn't make sense, marketing wise. If they do anything to the MacBooks and iMacs they would at least bump their speeds. It doesn't matter f the 2GHz Merom chip is faster than the 2GHz Yonah chip, the consumers don't give a crap about the chip... they want to see "them GHz numbers" go up.
We are talking here about Macintosh buyers, not about idiots.
Just sell Merom as "64 bit", that's twice as much as "32 bit".
We are talking here about Macintosh buyers, not about idiots.
Just sell Merom as "64 bit", that's twice as much as "32 bit".
Macnoviz
Jul 22, 03:03 AM
So I read in this thread that Kentsfield and Clovertown ARE compatible with Conroe and Woodcrest sockets (respectively) (Cloverton or Clovertown?)
Hope for upgrading an iMac to Quad Core is kindled! At least if Apple releases Conroe iMacs.
BTW, In my opinion, one thing a person should never, ever say is some computer has too much power, and that it will never be needed. So when 128 core CPUs come out in ~10 years time, will we still be considering dual core CPUs as fast enough for our use?
I seem to remember that when the original DOS operating system was created, its RAM was limited. I can't remember exactly to how much, but it was decided that people would never use more than a few kilobytes of memory. Now we are arguing that Mac should provide no less than a gigabyte! Now we are moving to 64 bit processing, with its capability to address a few exobytes, or millions of Terabytes of storage, it seems impossible that we will ever need 128bit computing. But, no doubt, one day we will.
When we will be able to download our entire lives, and even conciousness into a computer, as is said to happen in about 40 years (very much looking forward to), I dare say it will take a lot of memory to do, and even more processing power to manage effectively, especially if we wanted to "live" inside computers, as we will no doubt want to do someday.
So as a conclusion to my most recent rant, Please, never tell me a computer is too powerfu, has too many cores, or has too much storage capacity. If it is there to be used, it will be used. It always is.
I agree with your point on never saying a computer is too powerful, although living in computers is probably not going to happen. Sounds a bit too Matrix-like for me.
Hope for upgrading an iMac to Quad Core is kindled! At least if Apple releases Conroe iMacs.
BTW, In my opinion, one thing a person should never, ever say is some computer has too much power, and that it will never be needed. So when 128 core CPUs come out in ~10 years time, will we still be considering dual core CPUs as fast enough for our use?
I seem to remember that when the original DOS operating system was created, its RAM was limited. I can't remember exactly to how much, but it was decided that people would never use more than a few kilobytes of memory. Now we are arguing that Mac should provide no less than a gigabyte! Now we are moving to 64 bit processing, with its capability to address a few exobytes, or millions of Terabytes of storage, it seems impossible that we will ever need 128bit computing. But, no doubt, one day we will.
When we will be able to download our entire lives, and even conciousness into a computer, as is said to happen in about 40 years (very much looking forward to), I dare say it will take a lot of memory to do, and even more processing power to manage effectively, especially if we wanted to "live" inside computers, as we will no doubt want to do someday.
So as a conclusion to my most recent rant, Please, never tell me a computer is too powerfu, has too many cores, or has too much storage capacity. If it is there to be used, it will be used. It always is.
I agree with your point on never saying a computer is too powerful, although living in computers is probably not going to happen. Sounds a bit too Matrix-like for me.
onigami
Apr 10, 08:51 PM
They did it in 2007... I was there.
Back when Myspace was cool. (http://www.myspace.com/studiomusic1/blog/253736149)
Myspace was never cool.
Okay, okay, so they have done NAB (they've never done AES, though, that I'm certain). But still: They pulled out of everything in the last couple years. Why come back to NAB? Why not just do a small-scale announcement outside of NAB's timeframe so as to maximize press?
Also, nobody answered my initial question. Why the idle timer? There's no point!
Back when Myspace was cool. (http://www.myspace.com/studiomusic1/blog/253736149)
Myspace was never cool.
Okay, okay, so they have done NAB (they've never done AES, though, that I'm certain). But still: They pulled out of everything in the last couple years. Why come back to NAB? Why not just do a small-scale announcement outside of NAB's timeframe so as to maximize press?
Also, nobody answered my initial question. Why the idle timer? There's no point!
jav6454
Feb 28, 04:48 PM
Well, I have nothing to say, but that the University has grounds for dismissal if difference of opinion arises.
True, you can argue the gay card, but in this case, they college played the rights cards to get rid of him. Was it the best choice? No.
Still, it's the college's right on who teaches or not; and seeing how it's a Catholic Church college, I'd say it was bound to happen.
True, you can argue the gay card, but in this case, they college played the rights cards to get rid of him. Was it the best choice? No.
Still, it's the college's right on who teaches or not; and seeing how it's a Catholic Church college, I'd say it was bound to happen.
cjkihlbom
Aug 15, 11:54 AM
I'm so glad I ordered the 3 Ghz, almost as fast as the Quad G5 in Photoshop is insane!
doobs22
Mar 22, 10:14 PM
That just makes me glad I ordered my iPad 2 wifi w/64GB
Voight-Kampff Machine
of the Voight-Kampff test.
daver969
Sep 13, 11:05 AM
A bit pointless given that no software utilises the extra cores yet. But nice to know, I guess.
I'm still getting used to having two cores in my laptop!
What I couldn't understand - I couldn't see it explained in the article - why is the dual core Mac Pro (i.e. with current Mac Pro with 2 cores disabled) faster in so many tests than the 4 core Mac Pro.
I think part of the reason so many people seem to be hung up on the "software doesn't utilize multiple cores" mantra is because benchmarks tend to test only one software component at a time. If a given app isn't multithreaded, then it doesn't benefit from multiple cores in these tests. But that doesn't mean that multiple cores don't affect the overall system speed.
What we need is some kind of a super benchmark: How fast is my computer when I'm watching a quicktime stream of Steve demoing the latest insanely great stuff, while ripping my CD collection to iTunes, while surfing complex Cnet.com pages (w/animation), and compiling the latest version of my Java app, every once in a while flipping over to Dashboard (dashboard seems to take up a lot of system resources every time I invoke it, not just on startup).
At this point I would rather push towards more cores than more raw speed in a single core, since I don't tend to wait on any single process. If something is taking a long time, like loading a page or compiling code, I switch to something else and come back later. I would much rather have the whole system retain its responsive feel than have one app finish its task a few seconds quicker.
I'm still getting used to having two cores in my laptop!
What I couldn't understand - I couldn't see it explained in the article - why is the dual core Mac Pro (i.e. with current Mac Pro with 2 cores disabled) faster in so many tests than the 4 core Mac Pro.
I think part of the reason so many people seem to be hung up on the "software doesn't utilize multiple cores" mantra is because benchmarks tend to test only one software component at a time. If a given app isn't multithreaded, then it doesn't benefit from multiple cores in these tests. But that doesn't mean that multiple cores don't affect the overall system speed.
What we need is some kind of a super benchmark: How fast is my computer when I'm watching a quicktime stream of Steve demoing the latest insanely great stuff, while ripping my CD collection to iTunes, while surfing complex Cnet.com pages (w/animation), and compiling the latest version of my Java app, every once in a while flipping over to Dashboard (dashboard seems to take up a lot of system resources every time I invoke it, not just on startup).
At this point I would rather push towards more cores than more raw speed in a single core, since I don't tend to wait on any single process. If something is taking a long time, like loading a page or compiling code, I switch to something else and come back later. I would much rather have the whole system retain its responsive feel than have one app finish its task a few seconds quicker.
Multimedia
Sep 14, 05:56 PM
:eek: :eek: What's planned after 8 core processors? 16 cores on a chip? Seriously?? :confused: :confused:Not sure about beyond 8 which can be paired into a 16 core Mac. Perhaps. Too far out to tell although it is casually mentioned in the roadmap.
bigandy
Jul 14, 03:52 PM
the size and weight of the power supply makes it damn stupid to put in the top.
top heavy is just idiotic.
i'd love to see dual optical drive bays and the same basic design as the G5. it's a great design, so why the need for change in the first place... :rolleyes:
top heavy is just idiotic.
i'd love to see dual optical drive bays and the same basic design as the G5. it's a great design, so why the need for change in the first place... :rolleyes:
Eidorian
Jul 14, 05:21 PM
Given that this is easily available for the PC world, there's no reason why it can't also be made available for the Mac (aside from someone deciding to write the device driver, of course.)Ok, here's ANOTHER can of worms. Since we're on EFI now and can boot in Windows. It means our video cards, etc. don't have Open Firmware BIOS. Does that mean ANY "Windows" video card will work as long as OS X has drivers for it? Does OS X even have generic VGA drivers?
colinbm
Apr 27, 08:27 AM
For those of you saying you found it cool, download any of the various geotagging apps and run that. You can then plot your location on a map and get the accuracy of GPS too.
citizenzen
Mar 22, 01:52 PM
The big difference between Libya and Iraq is that in Iraq there wasn't a large insurgence controlling a decent proportion of the country before the troops went in.
Good point.
Good point.
Vulpinemac
Apr 6, 02:57 PM
I own both the iPad and the Xoom - both do some things very well, and both do some things horribly.
I am starting to wean myself off of iOS, though. The iPad served me well as a "starter" tablet, but I constantly find myself wanting it to do more or different things, which is something Android (not the Xoom specifically, but Android as a whole) does offer.
To each his own, you know?
To each his one, yes; but exactly what does Android offer as a platform than iOS doesn't--and I don't mean multiple download sources. What "... more or different things..." are you doing on Android that can't be done on iOS?
I am starting to wean myself off of iOS, though. The iPad served me well as a "starter" tablet, but I constantly find myself wanting it to do more or different things, which is something Android (not the Xoom specifically, but Android as a whole) does offer.
To each his own, you know?
To each his one, yes; but exactly what does Android offer as a platform than iOS doesn't--and I don't mean multiple download sources. What "... more or different things..." are you doing on Android that can't be done on iOS?
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